HP Blackbird 002: Back in Black
by Jarred Walton on September 12, 2007 12:00 PM EST- Posted in
- Systems
General Application Performance
We don't have any current performance results from any other computers besides the Blackbird 002, so rather than a bunch of charts we thought we would just quickly summarize things in a table. These are applications that are generally very responsive to increases in CPU performance - 3D rendering and video encoding. All other factors like memory speed, bus speed, and any other components are the same in both test configurations, so this will give you a good idea of exactly what a 57% overclock to a Core 2 Quad processor can get you. We don't expect any of these applications to actually increase performance linearly with CPU clock speed, but they might come close.
The above applications represent some of the poster children for quad-core processors and increased CPU clock speeds. ITunes is only able to utilize two processor cores right now for MP3 encoding, but it still responds well to increased clock speeds and improves by 55%. Cinebench R10 manages a 54% speed up, while Windows Media Encoder shows a slightly smaller 52% performance boost. DivX improves the least, increasing total performance by 40%. Considering the large amount of memory bandwidth that's needed in that particular benchmark, we would imagine the front side bus and memory are handicapping performance. Keep in mind that other than Cinebench, none of these applications come anywhere near keeping the CPU at 100% use across all four cores. DivX 6.6 averages around 60% and Windows Media Encoder is around 75%.
One video encoding benchmark that we really wanted to include is QuickTime H.264 encoding. We have seen on other systems that the latest 7.2 version of QuickTime does much better at H.264 encoding, in terms of the time it takes as well as CPU utilization. Unfortunately, we were unable to get QuickTime to work properly on the Blackbird 002. CPU utilization hovered at around 35%, and we invariably encountered an error saying the QuickTime movie export stopped responding about 15-20% through the conversion process. (We also had one blue screen when attempting to start an H.264 encode.) This was not a problem with the overclocked processor, however, as we encounter the same error when running the CPU at 2.33 GHz. Our best guess is that this is somehow related to the motherboard BIOS, but whatever the cause we have to chalk this up as one more quirk with the prototype Blackbird we were sent.
Update: It seems we were wrong about QuickTime. It's not the Blackbird, the BIOS, or anything else; the problem is QuickTime and Vista not getting along well. (This also explains some odd results I've noticed on other systems over the past couple weeks.) Right now, QuickTime appears to be completely broken on Vista, at least with certain movie types. Our test movies won't even play properly on any system we've tested, and the encoding results are erratic. If anyone has a good alternative that is relatively easy to set up, drop me a line! (x264 encoding would be great, but I would really like a straightforward process that doesn't involve a bunch of extra steps - i.e. Gordian Knot is more complex than I generally care to deal with.)
We don't have any current performance results from any other computers besides the Blackbird 002, so rather than a bunch of charts we thought we would just quickly summarize things in a table. These are applications that are generally very responsive to increases in CPU performance - 3D rendering and video encoding. All other factors like memory speed, bus speed, and any other components are the same in both test configurations, so this will give you a good idea of exactly what a 57% overclock to a Core 2 Quad processor can get you. We don't expect any of these applications to actually increase performance linearly with CPU clock speed, but they might come close.
| Application Performance Comparison | |||
| HP Blackbird 002 | HP Blackbird "Q6650" | %Increase from Overclock |
|
| Cinebench R10 XCPU | 13035 | 8457 | 54.13% |
| DivX 6.6 (Seconds) | 46 | 64.5 | 40.22% |
| Windows Media Encoder 9 | 31 | 47 | 51.61% |
| iTunes 7.4.1 MP3 (Seconds) | 24.5 | 38 | 55.10% |
The above applications represent some of the poster children for quad-core processors and increased CPU clock speeds. ITunes is only able to utilize two processor cores right now for MP3 encoding, but it still responds well to increased clock speeds and improves by 55%. Cinebench R10 manages a 54% speed up, while Windows Media Encoder shows a slightly smaller 52% performance boost. DivX improves the least, increasing total performance by 40%. Considering the large amount of memory bandwidth that's needed in that particular benchmark, we would imagine the front side bus and memory are handicapping performance. Keep in mind that other than Cinebench, none of these applications come anywhere near keeping the CPU at 100% use across all four cores. DivX 6.6 averages around 60% and Windows Media Encoder is around 75%.
One video encoding benchmark that we really wanted to include is QuickTime H.264 encoding. We have seen on other systems that the latest 7.2 version of QuickTime does much better at H.264 encoding, in terms of the time it takes as well as CPU utilization. Unfortunately, we were unable to get QuickTime to work properly on the Blackbird 002. CPU utilization hovered at around 35%, and we invariably encountered an error saying the QuickTime movie export stopped responding about 15-20% through the conversion process. (We also had one blue screen when attempting to start an H.264 encode.) This was not a problem with the overclocked processor, however, as we encounter the same error when running the CPU at 2.33 GHz. Our best guess is that this is somehow related to the motherboard BIOS, but whatever the cause we have to chalk this up as one more quirk with the prototype Blackbird we were sent.
Update: It seems we were wrong about QuickTime. It's not the Blackbird, the BIOS, or anything else; the problem is QuickTime and Vista not getting along well. (This also explains some odd results I've noticed on other systems over the past couple weeks.) Right now, QuickTime appears to be completely broken on Vista, at least with certain movie types. Our test movies won't even play properly on any system we've tested, and the encoding results are erratic. If anyone has a good alternative that is relatively easy to set up, drop me a line! (x264 encoding would be great, but I would really like a straightforward process that doesn't involve a bunch of extra steps - i.e. Gordian Knot is more complex than I generally care to deal with.)
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JarredWalton - Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - link
You have to do a bit more accurate math on the cost. Yes, it's still expensive, but it's not at all a 2-3X mark up.Crazy ATX Case: I'd say this is easily a $500 case. Not that most people need it, but this is not some flimsy plastic thing.
1100W PSU: It looks like this might be a TOPOWER 1100W PSU (it says "TOP-1100W DVT" on a sticker). The 1000W TOPOWER at Newegg costs $330 shipped, so call this on $350.
QX6850: $1200, not overclocked
ASUS Striker: $300
2 x 1GB 2900 XT: $1000
2x1GB Corsair Dominator 8500: $210
160GB Raptor: $190 (technically 10GB more than the normal 150GB Raptors)
750GB Seagate: $210
Logitech G11: $55
Logitech G5: $60
Asetek cooling: $400 for this particular kit seems likely
Blu-ray/HD drive: $880 (Yup, look up the GGW-H10NI - crazy!)
DVDR slot load: $40
Total for parts alone: $4200, and that's going by cheapest online prices.
Still expensive, still a ~50% markup, but then the factory overclock with warranty is worth at least something, right? Anyway, I'm not saying it's a great deal, but if someone told me they wanted me to build them a system like this? Yeah, I'd probably charge at least $1000 to do it, just because I'd want to have some extra for the invariable support costs. "My OC'ed computer just crashed...."
jonnyGURU - Friday, September 14, 2007 - link
Actually, the Blackbird's 1100W is based on Topower's 1200W platform. Tweak and guideline requests (OCP settings, efficiency at different loads, etc.) from HP put the continuous output rating at 1100W. So that's another $50 we need to add for the PSU. FWIW, it's based on the same unit as the ABS/Tagan 1300W (looser standards than HP) which sells for $400.yyrkoon - Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - link
OF al lthe OEM system manufactuers HP probably has one of the better warranties, or so I have been told. Since I do not personally OWN a HP machine, I have to go by word of mouth here. Anyhow, I would venture to say that the warranty on these blackbird system would probably have to be close to Dells Gold service plan.What does this mean ? It means you do not have to play the idiot on the phone for some E. India 'technitian' who probably has less of a clue what is wrong with your system than you do, but rather get to deal with stateside technitians who can actually be helpfull . . . It also means you do not have to wait for some lowly tech to wade through the 'chain of command' to get things replaced/fixed.
Slaimus - Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - link
Is it true that for this system HP somehow got CF to work on a SLI motherboard? If so, does it need special modded drivers like the ULi "GLI" motherboards?wolfman3k5 - Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - link
I doubt that, I will do some research on that and post back. Raul Sood said that they didn't do it with NVidia's help, so if anything was moded, it must be special Catalyst drivers that are being made available only to HP. Sooner or later the "secret" will come out. But I don't imagine that it's something that difficult to do, since ATI uses two CF bridges, and they transfer all rendering data over those, hence, they don't have to rely on the chipset.RamarC - Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - link
but the blackbird line is shipping with at least two motherboard options since there's an amd x2 based blackbird. so two additional mobos could be available for cf/sli.JarredWalton - Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - link
No need to do any research:"ATI CrossFire requires peer-to-peer writes in order to function, and ATI has always maintained that support for this feature is the only thing preventing CrossFire from working on other chipsets, like NVIDIA's SLI chipsets."
If the BIOS is updates so that peer-to-peer PCI-E writes work, CrossFire should work. SLI of course is a given, and getting SLI on non-NVIDIA chipsets is what usually requires hacked drivers. I'll let you know if the stock 7.9 drivers work properly later today when I've had a chance to verify.
n7 - Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - link
I was excited to see this review, mainly because i wanted to see how well their cooling system worked.But there's not a word in this review about the cooling setup, what temps were, was it better than others for OCing etc...
And as for the system itself, sure, it looks nice, & getting SLI or CF working is nice, but 2 GB of RAM?
That's just a big joke when many of us already run 4 GB in our "lowly systems"...
JarredWalton - Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - link
For a 32-bit OS, there's not much need to go beyond 2GB of RAM. Users will almost certainly get the option to install 4GB in the online configurator - and they might even be able to select a 64-bit OS; I don't know yet because the system isn't officially on sale for a few more days.As for the water cooling setup, I haven't tested any other water cooling configs so I can't say whether the Asetek unit in the Blackbird is better or not. It appears to deal with a fully stressed Core 2 Quad @ 3.66 GHz, though I can't be 100% sure that the overclock didn't cause a crash or two. I can look into temperatures for the follow-up, but honestly I think stability is far more important. If a system can manage to run Folding@Home SMP without excessive failures and/or crashes, that's usually a pretty good indication that the overclock is "safe".
wolfman3k5 - Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - link
HP should have known better than installing a 32 bit OS on such a system, because the OS will never be able to address all the video memory. It's about the same as installing 4GB Ram on a 32 bit OS, except that in this situation with 2GB system RAM and 2GB Video Ram, the OS will be able to address closer to 4GB Ram. Other devices also take away some of the 4GB addressing space.As far as CrossFire is concerned, it's not so miraculous that it works on a Striker Motherboard. After all, native crossfire will transfer all data over the two bridges, so it can be chipset agnostic.
It looks like the high performance PC market is pretty profitable, and HP and other companies are going after the boutique manufacturers to try and take away what business is left. But if I want this kind of computer, I'd rather buy from Falcon NW, Puget or build my own. Sorry, not my cup of tea.