Phenom II Performance System
The fully decked out Phenom II includes the best motherboard tested so far in our lab for the AM2+/AM3 CPUs. Because the top Phenom II is DDR2-only the motherboard is by necessity a DDR2 board. The Phenom II 940 and 920 will be phased out by the end of 2009 and replaced with the new 945 and 925, which support either DDR3 or DDR2 like the most recent Phenom II CPUs. The 945/925 are expected to begin shipping in April.
The 940/920 still outperform the Phenom II 810 even though the newer Phenom II features four cores like the older 940/920. At 2.6GHz the 810 is slower than the 940/920, and the multiplier is locked where the 940 BE features an unlocked multiplier. In addition, the L3 cache on the 810 is 4MB where the 940/920 is 6MB. While the 810 is an excellent CPU, it really doesn't challenge the 940/920 for the performance crown. The advantage of the 810 is the dual DDR2/DDR3 memory controller. Frankly, we have yet to see a real performance advantage for DDR3 memory on the Phenom II so there was no real reason not to choose the current 940 for the Phenom II Performance system.
The new 945/925 will also be 6MB L3 cache, and the HT or uncore speed will be 2.0GHz instead of the 940/920 speed of 1.8GHz. The real impact of this is very small, but when the 945/925 enter the pipeline they will provide more options at the top of the Phenom II line. This will also likely create some bargain prices for the 940 and 920 processors that remain in the market after the 945/925 introduction.
Anand is completing testing for a massive SSD roundup that will be published soon. There are new performance and value leaders that will be revealed in that roundup, and we will definitely be recommending SSD drives and SSD RAID boot arrays in future System Buyers' Guides. For now, we are holding off on any recommendations pending final testing. Besides, you can easily add an SSD down the road if the need arises.
While the Phenom II 940 is definitely the most powerful AMD processor yet released it is not really a competitor to today's top Intel Core i7 processors. However, as has been said in every recent review of Phenom II, it definitely competes well with Intel's Core 2 architecture which means it competes with Intel CPUs through the $290 upper midrange price point. Since the processor is upper midrange, the components selected are top-performing for their price but not always the best you can buy. You could easily extend the Phenom II Performance system to a 30" monitor and a more powerful CrossFire or SLI graphics system. AMD fans who are avid gamers may choose that route, but we kept the selections more in line with the midrange price and performance of the Phenom II. For the money the Performance Phenom II system is a heck of a system, as we hope you will agree.
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You can read our
review of the Phenom II X4 and the
Phenom II X4 810 & X3 720 for additional information. The Phenom II 940 X4 at 3.0GHz is the fastest of the currently shipping AMD Phenom II processors. The Phenom II is very similar in L2/L3 cache configuration to the recently introduced Intel Core i7. Performance is also comparable to the best Intel Core 2 chips. As the first 45nm AMD processors, the Phenom II also overclocks very well, finally approaching the overclocking levels enjoyed by Intel since the introduction of the Core 2 Duo.
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We've paired the Phenom II 940 with the superb ASUS M4A79 Deluxe. At $200 the ASUS is not cheap or even a great value for a 790FX/SB750 setup, but it is the most loaded, best performing, and most overclockable AMD board we have used this year. ASUS loads the board with Gigabit LAN, IEEE 1394 support, four PCI-E x16 slots (dual x16, tri x16/x8/x8, or quad x8), two PCI slots, an eSATA port, and six 3Gb/s SATA ports featuring RAID 0/1/5/10. The M4A79 Deluxe works very well with Phenom II and end-users will not be disappointed in performance or overclocking capabilities. Memory is DDR2 as AM3 DDR3 boards are just now entering the market. Until a DDR3 board dethrones the M4A79 Deluxe it is the top board for a top Phenom II.
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A number of old and new coolers work well on AM2+/AM3 processors, but the cooler choice for the Performance Phenom II is still the Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme. This is basically the top performing Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme from our Core 2 tests. Thermalright has been changing the packaging and names of their Ultra-120 coolers so you may have to look closely at the new packages and descriptions to make sure you are getting the Ultra-120 eXtreme. The original Ultra-120 also performs very well with the Phenom II processors and will save you about $15 to $20 if you are stretching a budget.
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Memory is very cheap today, so the Performance Phenom II is paired with two 4GB kits for a total of 8GB. You may be wondering why we have chosen 8GB of G.Skill DDR2-1100 when AMD warns that the maximum speed for 4 DIMMs is DDR2-800. That warning is certainly true on lower end boards, but we have found the ASUS M4A79 Deluxe paired with quality memory can run 4x2GB at DDR2-1066 without any trouble. The 1100 speed also gives some headroom should you decide to overclock this unlocked Black Edition Phenom II 940.
For the video card we have selected the
MSI R4870-T2D1G Radeon HD 4870 1GB. As pointed out in the recent
Multi-GPU comparison, the 4870 1GB provides optimum performance on a 1080p monitor such as the BenQ 24" chosen in this system. Higher spec graphics and high-end CrossFire or SLI really require a 30" display (2560x1600) to see the performance improvements they bring to the system. The MSI is a well-regarded card that is just $195 after the current $25 rebate. The 4870 1GB is a very popular card because it matches well with the monitors most users actually own and buy. It is available from MSI, Diamond, ASUS, HIS, Power Color, and others so you can shop for the best buy.
The hard drive used in the Performance Phenom II system is the Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB (1000GB) with true 7200RPM speed and a 32MB cache. The cheaper Western Digital drives use a "variable speed" 5400-7200RPM spindle that performs well and is very quiet, but the 7200RPM drives are a bit faster.
We feel the optical drive for the Phenom II Performance system needs to both play Blu-Ray disks and burn 25GB/50GB Blu-Ray discs. We have upgraded the optical drive to the flexible LG GGW-H20LK burner, which is now selling for just $200 and has the ability to read and write Blu-Ray disks. It also can burn DVDs at 16x speed in single or dual-layer formats. A DVD burner is also included to simplify disk archiving and backup tasks. Two optical drives can be very handy in any system.
The speakers have been upgraded to the Logitech G51 155W RMS 5.1 surround sound speakers. The G51 system works well with the ASUS onboard Realtek ALC1200 audio. They also perform well with the addition of sound card if you decide sound needs an upgrade. The $40 rebate is gone for the G51 system, but they are still a very good value in a powered speaker system.
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The LCD display resolution is the same 1080p HD resolution chosen for the Phenom II overclocking systems. The size of the monitor is now 24" so everything on screen is just a little larger. The BenQ E2400HD 24" provides inputs for whatever graphics adapter you may need with HDMI, DVI, and an analog VGA port. Panel speed is rated at an incredible 2ms, but we have found most current LCD panels perform similarly and the speed rating does not really guarantee very much. The BenQ monitor provides a sharp image, good colors, and fast panel speed at a very good price of $280. However, there are certainly larger, better, and more expensive panels available. For more information on what matters in a monitor and how to read LCD specifications, take a look at our
Holiday 2008 Display Guide.
The remaining items are upgrades of the Overclocking System. The keyboard and mouse have been upgraded to high performance choices in the Logitech G5 USB laser mouse and the Logitech G15 precision control keyboard. If those choices are not important to you, the substitution of a Microsoft wired OEM keyboard and optical mouse for $16 could save you $133 on the system price. Alternately, the drop back to the Logitech G11 keyboard and MX518 8-button optical mouse could save you $50 off the performance choices with little compromise in system performance.
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Adul - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
The last area to discuss is input devices, where we went with gamer value favorites in the Logitech G11 USB gaming keyboard and the MX518 8-button laser mouse.This is an optical mouse. You mean the G5 Laser mouse that is found in a 8 button configuration perhaps?
oldscotch - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
Did I read that correctly? The DDR3 kit was actually cheaper than the DDR2?If that's the case, is there any point in going with DDR2 for a new build? It would seem to me that it's better futureproofing with an AM3/DDR3 setup.
Wesley Fink - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
As sometimes happens after we recommend a product, the etailer stopped the rebate on the Reaper 4GB DDR3-1600 and raised the price substantially. I guess that is supply and demand.A very good alternative is the Patriot DDR3-1600 7-7-7 kit at $90 after rebate, which is just $15 more than the Guide shows for the Reaper DDR3-1600 kit. You can find the Patriot Viper at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8... and perhaps the great OCZ Reaper DDR3-1600 7-7-7 price will be back in a few days.
whatthehey - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
You know, I have some major issues with including mail-in rebates as part of the base system price. It would be a lot better if you removed them from the initial calculation and listed rebates in a separate column. Actually, I could swear you did that before, but it has been a while. There are many reasons for this:1) Rebates are always transitory in nature.
2) Not all companies are great about processing rebates.
3) Many people forget to send in the rebate (or don't do it quickly enough).
Just because someone has a "deal of the week" where $130 RAM is selling for $60 doesn't mean that should go into a buyer's guide. People will refer back to this guide for months perhaps, and every time they see that crazy unattainable price they're going ton wonder what they're doing wrong. I get the point that DDR3 on sale may be cheaper than certain performance DDR2 kits, but get real: DDR3 still has a price premium and likely will for the next 6-9 months.
Incidentally, the best price I could currently find for the OCZ kit you listed is now $122: http://www.avadirect.com/product_details_parts.asp...">http://www.avadirect.com/product_details_parts.asp.... That's a far cry from the $65 you originally quoted. And that really isn't particularly high - the Patriot you mention above is roughly the same price without the rebate. Oh yeah, and I'm pretty sure I saw that OCZ rebate listed as expiring on MARCH 1 2009 last week... so your claim that the "etailer stopped the rebate" is specious at best. Seems more like you picked it based on price last week and didn't bother to verify the duration of the rebate option.
The guide was pretty good overall, but with some questionable commentary and picks in places. RAM and rebates are my biggest beef, but the "Performance" system still ends up feeling like you're being overly kind to AMD. Phenom II really competes with Core 2 Quad on a clock for clock basis, and even there it loses out based on your own testing: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?...">http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?... You linked that article several times, and yet somehow are still thrilled with the price and performance Phenom II offers. Here's the breakdown. (Sorry to rain on the AMD parade, but someone needs to keep reality in check.)
Sysmark 2007: Q9550 is 9.3% faster than Phenom II 940
Photoshop CS4: Q9550 is 19.8% faster.
DivX 8.5.3: Q9550 is 4.0% faster.
x264 pass 1: Q9550 is 7.0% slower. (One of the few wins for AMD, but your own text indicates this pass is not as important as the second one below.)
x264 pass 2: Q9550 is 5.6% faster.
WME9: Q9550 is 3.1% slower (a small win).
3dsmax 9: Q9550 is 5.6% faster.
Cinebench R10: Q9550 is 0.5% slower (a tie in essence).
POV-Ray 3.73 beta 23: Q9550 is 0.2% faster (another tie).
PAR2: Q9550 is 8.2% slower. (A "big" win for AMD, though I have to say I've never used PAR2 or similar. Maybe for the warez kiddiez this will matter?)
Blender 2.48a: Q9550 is 18.7% faster.
Microsoft Excel 2007: Q9550 is 68.2% faster! (Is this even real-world, or just more of an outlier?)
Sony Vegas Pro 8: Q9550 is 9.9% slower. (Another largish victory for AMD, but this is in a Sony program and I refuse to touch anything Sony.)
Sorenson Squeeze: Q9550 is 0.2% slower (tie).
WinRAR: Q9550 is 5.5% slower (cache limited test perhaps?)
Fallout 3: Q9550 is 1.1% faster (tie - game engine limited?)
Left 4 Dead: Q9550 is 5.7% faster.
Far Cry 2: Q9550 is 23.0% faster! (Wow... that's a huge margin compared to the other games.)
Crysis Warhead: Q9550 is 5.8% faster.
AMD also wins on power consumption, but even a difference of 17W (looking at the Q9650, since the Q9550S is a lower power chip that costs more) is pretty negligible for home users. That works out to around $15 per year or less, even if you're running the system 24/7 at idle (best case scenario).
As for overclocking, I'm far more confident in Intel chips when it comes time to push clock speeds and voltages. Remember that the above results are comparing a 3.0GHz AMD chip to a 2.83GHz Intel chip, and AMD is already losing. The Q9550 can frequently hit 4.0GHz, and even if AMD keeps up in clock speed that would further boost Intel scores by around 6% (i.e. they'd be at the same clock instead of AMD having a 6% advantage).
So, yeah, AMD is competitive... sort of. If you want to support the underdog, you can do so and not feel like you're giving up much. Personally, there are enough instances where Intel is clearly superior with it's old Penryn chip (Far Cry 2, Sysmark, Photoshop for example), not to mention Core i7 which is completely viable at $2000, as you've already shown. I think this final "performance" system is in there just so AMD doesn't feel bad. :-p
Note that I'm not accusing you of being biased or fanboys. That shit gets thrown around way too much. I'm just saying you could have been a bit more reserved with your praise of AMD, considering all they're really doing is closing the gap with Intel's outgoing architecture. The truly sad thing is that Core i7 is a similar size chip to Phenom II and is substantially faster (I've seen 263mm^2 vs. 258mm^2 listed), and as you pointed out Penryn is only 164mm^2. AMD is not at all in a pretty position, as Intel could drop prices on Core i7 at any time they feel it's necessary, and likewise for Penryn parts!
Kiijibari - Wednesday, March 4, 2009 - link
You might want to check the minimum fps within your games ;-)Wesley Fink - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
I agree in concept with the idea that rebates can be confusing when included in the pricing. However, with the economy in sad shape right now we are seeing rebates in almost every product category. To ignore the rebates is to reward those who don't use rebates to reduce price.Frankly, I am almost for rewarding those who don't use the rebates, because I truly believe reducing the price is a better way to to create value, but in some categories almost every product is using a rebate to lower the price.
This time I included the rebated price but I did list the rebate amount in parentheses so readers would know which products had a rebated price. What would you suggest as a better method?
Last, I have no problem with the rebate ending on an item if that is what happened on the Reaper DDR3-1600 kit. In fact the memory has now reappeared at $99 with a $20 rebate, which makes it the same price as the Patriot, and $15 more than quoted in the guide. Details are at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8....
just4U - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
What excites many of us about the PII's is it adds more options to the table for system builds. It can always be a bit of trial to fit what you want into a budget afterall. Something to consider ...Your paying (in the States) I believe 20% more for the 9550 for a mere 2% gain (overall) Here in Canada Your paying 30% more for that gain which could be spent on it, saved, or put into other parts. Those are nice options to have. Plus getting certain parts (for those that by locally) can be a bit of a pain with stock always a issues so having more options to go with is excellent.
No reason not to cheer on these new cpu's as they open up a closed market that was totally dominated by Intel... Now it's not. What's so bad about that?
whatthehey - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
Prices I can find right now are $254.50 for the Q9550 and $214.50 for the Phenom II 940, which is indeed a 20% increase. However, it's only an ~2.5% increase in total system cost (not counting peripherals). Both prices for CPUs came from eWiz, a pretty major vendor that I've used and had a good experience with:http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=HDZ940XCBX&c=...">http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=HDZ940...efb4b1c0...
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=Q9550&c=fr&am...">http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=Q9550&...efb4b1c0...
Moreover, their own list of parts for a Core i7 system is only $100 more for roughly similar specs, but much higher performance: http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=351...">http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=351... If you're looking at anything close to $1500 for the system, or $2000+ total, you'd have to be pretty stupid (or biased) to stay away from Core i7 right now.
just4U - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
Oh comeon, that's just a foot in the door price.. If you price out a high end i7 setup with all the bells and whistles it's going to cost substantially more then comparable PII's or Q9x ddr2 solutions. The I7 isn't even a consideration for most and sure as hell isn't the platform that's selling like hotcakes in the desktop market. All Amd's new products have done is offer choices in one of the highest selling areas that was dominated by intel. That's something that's good all around and that's what many of us are pleased about.Also last I checked (in reference to the anandtech link) most of us are not buying $300 motherboards, Nor are we buying 3G kits. I don't know about you but If I was of a mind to pay that much for my motherboard I certainly wouldn't be settling for anything less then 6G since anything less then 4 would a downgrade.
JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 3, 2009 - link
Just to throw it out:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">3x2GB DDR3-1600 for $100
With other price corrections and a less expensive X58 motherboard, Core i7 really isn't *that* much more than Phenom II, assuming you're buying the whole setup. If you're reusing some existing components, particularly RAM or motherboard, Phenom II has a lot more going for it. Head to head I have to agree that personally there's no way I'm spending upwards of $1000 without giving a real serious look at Core i7 platforms.
That said, I'm quite happy with my aging Core 2 Quad systems. I've got a 975X with a QX6700 (@3.2GHz) and an X38 with Q6600 (@3.30GHz). I really have no serious need for anything faster right now.