Final Words
The Intel Core i7 processor currently owns the high-end market, which is the reason the CPU prices remain high relative to the Intel Core 2 Duo/Quad and the AMD Phenom II and Phenom. The cheapest Core i7 920 CPU is around $300, with two more models going for up to $1010. In addition, the Core i7 uses a new Socket 1366 and supports the first triple-channel DDR3 memory configuration. Both the socket and memory configuration are unique right now to the higher priced Core i7, which keeps i7 supporting component prices high.
Just below that high-end i7 you will now find a broad range of competitive AMD Phenom II processors. These new CPUs are 45nm and compete very well against Intel Core 2 Duo and Quad. The new Phenom II processors even overclock well, something that has been very much missed by AMD fans in the last couple of years. With the latest Phenom II introductions there is now a very complete Phenom II product line ranging from the $119 710 to the top line 940 BE Phenom II. In the middle of the line at $145 you will also find the Black Edition unlocked 720BE, which is proving to be a DDR3 and DDR2 overclockers "dream" CPU.
With the broad line of Phenom II processors, computer builders have quite a few choices in the computing directions they pursue with Phenom II. In this guide we put together a high value entry-level Phenom II for just $365. Even equipped with a 22" LCD Monitor supported by the integrated motherboard graphics and including the Vista Home Premium OS, keyboard, speakers, and mouse the complete Phenom II 710 system comes in at just $640. We can't remember a time in recent memory where so much computer power could be purchased for so little money. While we have said that a lot lately, the bang-for-the-buck in today's systems continues to impress us - particularly at the entry and lower midrange. That's certainly a good thing in a worldwide economy that is struggling. Computers are really a necessity in our plugged-in world and you can get a lot of computer today for very little money.
The Overclocking Phenom II combined a hot new $135 DDR3 motherboard with the 720 BE unlocked processor and 4GB of DDR3-1600 memory. At AnandTech, this combo easily pushed to 3.9GHz, which is the kind of overclocks we have not seen from AMD in quite a while. With competent AMD 4850 graphics, this powerful overclocking system still comes in at base price of $835. Add a Full HD 1080p monitor, precision input device, 5.1 speakers, and Vista Home Premium and you can still buy a complete DDR3 Overclocking Phenom II system for around $1275. Those who have performance DDR2 memory they want to take to Phenom II or those who prefer a DDR2 system will find the DDR2 OC Phenom II system costs all but the same as the DDR3 option.
Finally, we put together the Phenom II Performance System. Since the most expensive Phenom II X4 3.0GHz is still selling for just $225, the Performance system is not really high-end. Instead we upgraded the LCD to 24", the graphics to AMD Radeon 4870 1GB, and the memory to 8GB. Even with all the upgrades from the Phenom II OC System, the base price is around $1400 and the full-blown system with monitor, speakers, upgraded keyboard/mouse, and Vista OS is about $2000 for the complete system.
This broad range of Phenom II builds should provide you with mix and match choices to meet whatever needs you are aiming to fill in your new Phenom II system. You can also extend the system even further if that meets your goals with 4870X2 graphics or 4850 CrossFire with two reasonable 4850 cards (total cost about $300) powering a 30" panel at 2560x1600.
The Phenom II provides tremendous value in the computer midrange. Fortunately, the associated components are also a good value, which makes Phenom II systems very competitive in today's market. Whether your goal is an entry-level setup, a screaming overclocker, or midrange performance AMD is a good choice again. The choices provide good alternatives to Intel and the competition keeps prices for components low so you get maximum value from your computer hardware.
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Adul - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
The last area to discuss is input devices, where we went with gamer value favorites in the Logitech G11 USB gaming keyboard and the MX518 8-button laser mouse.This is an optical mouse. You mean the G5 Laser mouse that is found in a 8 button configuration perhaps?
oldscotch - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
Did I read that correctly? The DDR3 kit was actually cheaper than the DDR2?If that's the case, is there any point in going with DDR2 for a new build? It would seem to me that it's better futureproofing with an AM3/DDR3 setup.
Wesley Fink - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
As sometimes happens after we recommend a product, the etailer stopped the rebate on the Reaper 4GB DDR3-1600 and raised the price substantially. I guess that is supply and demand.A very good alternative is the Patriot DDR3-1600 7-7-7 kit at $90 after rebate, which is just $15 more than the Guide shows for the Reaper DDR3-1600 kit. You can find the Patriot Viper at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8... and perhaps the great OCZ Reaper DDR3-1600 7-7-7 price will be back in a few days.
whatthehey - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
You know, I have some major issues with including mail-in rebates as part of the base system price. It would be a lot better if you removed them from the initial calculation and listed rebates in a separate column. Actually, I could swear you did that before, but it has been a while. There are many reasons for this:1) Rebates are always transitory in nature.
2) Not all companies are great about processing rebates.
3) Many people forget to send in the rebate (or don't do it quickly enough).
Just because someone has a "deal of the week" where $130 RAM is selling for $60 doesn't mean that should go into a buyer's guide. People will refer back to this guide for months perhaps, and every time they see that crazy unattainable price they're going ton wonder what they're doing wrong. I get the point that DDR3 on sale may be cheaper than certain performance DDR2 kits, but get real: DDR3 still has a price premium and likely will for the next 6-9 months.
Incidentally, the best price I could currently find for the OCZ kit you listed is now $122: http://www.avadirect.com/product_details_parts.asp...">http://www.avadirect.com/product_details_parts.asp.... That's a far cry from the $65 you originally quoted. And that really isn't particularly high - the Patriot you mention above is roughly the same price without the rebate. Oh yeah, and I'm pretty sure I saw that OCZ rebate listed as expiring on MARCH 1 2009 last week... so your claim that the "etailer stopped the rebate" is specious at best. Seems more like you picked it based on price last week and didn't bother to verify the duration of the rebate option.
The guide was pretty good overall, but with some questionable commentary and picks in places. RAM and rebates are my biggest beef, but the "Performance" system still ends up feeling like you're being overly kind to AMD. Phenom II really competes with Core 2 Quad on a clock for clock basis, and even there it loses out based on your own testing: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?...">http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?... You linked that article several times, and yet somehow are still thrilled with the price and performance Phenom II offers. Here's the breakdown. (Sorry to rain on the AMD parade, but someone needs to keep reality in check.)
Sysmark 2007: Q9550 is 9.3% faster than Phenom II 940
Photoshop CS4: Q9550 is 19.8% faster.
DivX 8.5.3: Q9550 is 4.0% faster.
x264 pass 1: Q9550 is 7.0% slower. (One of the few wins for AMD, but your own text indicates this pass is not as important as the second one below.)
x264 pass 2: Q9550 is 5.6% faster.
WME9: Q9550 is 3.1% slower (a small win).
3dsmax 9: Q9550 is 5.6% faster.
Cinebench R10: Q9550 is 0.5% slower (a tie in essence).
POV-Ray 3.73 beta 23: Q9550 is 0.2% faster (another tie).
PAR2: Q9550 is 8.2% slower. (A "big" win for AMD, though I have to say I've never used PAR2 or similar. Maybe for the warez kiddiez this will matter?)
Blender 2.48a: Q9550 is 18.7% faster.
Microsoft Excel 2007: Q9550 is 68.2% faster! (Is this even real-world, or just more of an outlier?)
Sony Vegas Pro 8: Q9550 is 9.9% slower. (Another largish victory for AMD, but this is in a Sony program and I refuse to touch anything Sony.)
Sorenson Squeeze: Q9550 is 0.2% slower (tie).
WinRAR: Q9550 is 5.5% slower (cache limited test perhaps?)
Fallout 3: Q9550 is 1.1% faster (tie - game engine limited?)
Left 4 Dead: Q9550 is 5.7% faster.
Far Cry 2: Q9550 is 23.0% faster! (Wow... that's a huge margin compared to the other games.)
Crysis Warhead: Q9550 is 5.8% faster.
AMD also wins on power consumption, but even a difference of 17W (looking at the Q9650, since the Q9550S is a lower power chip that costs more) is pretty negligible for home users. That works out to around $15 per year or less, even if you're running the system 24/7 at idle (best case scenario).
As for overclocking, I'm far more confident in Intel chips when it comes time to push clock speeds and voltages. Remember that the above results are comparing a 3.0GHz AMD chip to a 2.83GHz Intel chip, and AMD is already losing. The Q9550 can frequently hit 4.0GHz, and even if AMD keeps up in clock speed that would further boost Intel scores by around 6% (i.e. they'd be at the same clock instead of AMD having a 6% advantage).
So, yeah, AMD is competitive... sort of. If you want to support the underdog, you can do so and not feel like you're giving up much. Personally, there are enough instances where Intel is clearly superior with it's old Penryn chip (Far Cry 2, Sysmark, Photoshop for example), not to mention Core i7 which is completely viable at $2000, as you've already shown. I think this final "performance" system is in there just so AMD doesn't feel bad. :-p
Note that I'm not accusing you of being biased or fanboys. That shit gets thrown around way too much. I'm just saying you could have been a bit more reserved with your praise of AMD, considering all they're really doing is closing the gap with Intel's outgoing architecture. The truly sad thing is that Core i7 is a similar size chip to Phenom II and is substantially faster (I've seen 263mm^2 vs. 258mm^2 listed), and as you pointed out Penryn is only 164mm^2. AMD is not at all in a pretty position, as Intel could drop prices on Core i7 at any time they feel it's necessary, and likewise for Penryn parts!
Kiijibari - Wednesday, March 4, 2009 - link
You might want to check the minimum fps within your games ;-)Wesley Fink - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
I agree in concept with the idea that rebates can be confusing when included in the pricing. However, with the economy in sad shape right now we are seeing rebates in almost every product category. To ignore the rebates is to reward those who don't use rebates to reduce price.Frankly, I am almost for rewarding those who don't use the rebates, because I truly believe reducing the price is a better way to to create value, but in some categories almost every product is using a rebate to lower the price.
This time I included the rebated price but I did list the rebate amount in parentheses so readers would know which products had a rebated price. What would you suggest as a better method?
Last, I have no problem with the rebate ending on an item if that is what happened on the Reaper DDR3-1600 kit. In fact the memory has now reappeared at $99 with a $20 rebate, which makes it the same price as the Patriot, and $15 more than quoted in the guide. Details are at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8....
just4U - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
What excites many of us about the PII's is it adds more options to the table for system builds. It can always be a bit of trial to fit what you want into a budget afterall. Something to consider ...Your paying (in the States) I believe 20% more for the 9550 for a mere 2% gain (overall) Here in Canada Your paying 30% more for that gain which could be spent on it, saved, or put into other parts. Those are nice options to have. Plus getting certain parts (for those that by locally) can be a bit of a pain with stock always a issues so having more options to go with is excellent.
No reason not to cheer on these new cpu's as they open up a closed market that was totally dominated by Intel... Now it's not. What's so bad about that?
whatthehey - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
Prices I can find right now are $254.50 for the Q9550 and $214.50 for the Phenom II 940, which is indeed a 20% increase. However, it's only an ~2.5% increase in total system cost (not counting peripherals). Both prices for CPUs came from eWiz, a pretty major vendor that I've used and had a good experience with:http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=HDZ940XCBX&c=...">http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=HDZ940...efb4b1c0...
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=Q9550&c=fr&am...">http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=Q9550&...efb4b1c0...
Moreover, their own list of parts for a Core i7 system is only $100 more for roughly similar specs, but much higher performance: http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=351...">http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=351... If you're looking at anything close to $1500 for the system, or $2000+ total, you'd have to be pretty stupid (or biased) to stay away from Core i7 right now.
just4U - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
Oh comeon, that's just a foot in the door price.. If you price out a high end i7 setup with all the bells and whistles it's going to cost substantially more then comparable PII's or Q9x ddr2 solutions. The I7 isn't even a consideration for most and sure as hell isn't the platform that's selling like hotcakes in the desktop market. All Amd's new products have done is offer choices in one of the highest selling areas that was dominated by intel. That's something that's good all around and that's what many of us are pleased about.Also last I checked (in reference to the anandtech link) most of us are not buying $300 motherboards, Nor are we buying 3G kits. I don't know about you but If I was of a mind to pay that much for my motherboard I certainly wouldn't be settling for anything less then 6G since anything less then 4 would a downgrade.
JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 3, 2009 - link
Just to throw it out:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">3x2GB DDR3-1600 for $100
With other price corrections and a less expensive X58 motherboard, Core i7 really isn't *that* much more than Phenom II, assuming you're buying the whole setup. If you're reusing some existing components, particularly RAM or motherboard, Phenom II has a lot more going for it. Head to head I have to agree that personally there's no way I'm spending upwards of $1000 without giving a real serious look at Core i7 platforms.
That said, I'm quite happy with my aging Core 2 Quad systems. I've got a 975X with a QX6700 (@3.2GHz) and an X38 with Q6600 (@3.30GHz). I really have no serious need for anything faster right now.