Agreed it is awesome, but "filthy richers, buying them up" will not bring the price down. 3 things will bring it down. 1 - competition 2 - higher storage tiers coming out filling the top spot and 3 - lack of sales at the current price. 1,2, and 3 can contribute to each other in many ways, but collectively any combo can score price lowering points in the game.
Good point. It will happen though, just a matter of time. Look how far SSD prices have droped in the past few years. I just picked up a Samsung 850 pro 256gb for $130 and an Adata sp550 480gb for only $108 on my latest system build. in a year or two we will probably see 1-2tb SSD's for those prices and 8-16tb for $1499.
I don't think it has to do with being rich.. business may buy such things if they figure they need it.. Enthusiasts may as well.. It's been this way since forever.
Same here, I'd love to get some but it's too soon. I'll be buying 6 or 8 TB mechanical drives soonish to replace older hardware, so maybe next time SSDs will be close enough in cost per GB to make it a viable option.
Agreed. Right now I can get 4TB mechanical drives for $150ish - or about 1/10th the price. When it hits 1/2 the price (ie: 4TB for $300ish) then I'll switch to all SSDs.
Can't justify using it in my personal machines, but I am trying to convince my work to buy 2 2TB drives for raid 1 to house VMs that have databases on them. It would dramatically help a lot of things, and while the price is high, when considering how many people's productivity would rise I would think it a simple decision
yep, it's to much money for the majority of us but... this is VERY good news. Now that the high capacity SSDs are truly here... they will eventually come down to a price level we can all afford. Might take awhile (1-2 years max I think..) but they will get there.
Is there any chance of HPE/etc letting a few of their crazy SSDs out for review? I'd be interested both in raw performance numbers from the standard SSD benches and in what Johan could do with a few to see how much they speed up various server applications.
$1600.................... Imagine what you could get for $1600. This is consumer hardware for crying out loud.
Sammy's been keeping lots of riches lately; best performing drives, great reliability, and the lowest cost BoM in all/most segments with higher than average prices (ie: highest margins).
I seriously HATE how they're playing a major role in fixing prices at those extremely high levels. Like seriously? Double the space is DOUBLE the cost? I don't buy this one bit, even if it's first gen 48 layer NAND. Early adoption has its limits, 3D NAND can be considered mature now, newer tech in fabrication should be used to lower costs IMMEDIATELY, not milk the consumer.
Being new tech it probably is lower yield and has more unrecovered upfront R&D costs (that the mature 32 layer vnand has already long since recovered from early adopters). If anything is remarkable it should be that while clearly in low rate initial production (if it was yielding as good as the older production lines they'd be switching them over much faster and launching at mainstream sizes too) for a halo product that they're not charging a premium for it that would make it *MORE* expensive than RAID0ing a pair of 2 TB drives.
Double the space is double the price because the cost to make one is double. SSD pricing doesn't scale like HDDs because high capacity SSDs simply contain more NAND chips.
Does double the capacity mean double the silicon? We're talking 48 layer here. Isn't the cost of the controller relatively the same? Or does that double as well?
Definitely milking. It's not even double the amount of chips... actually the quantity of silicon is the same, they're just using higher columns of 3D nand. Same controller, same packaging, same transport/handling... It's probably costing them ... let's say, 25% more to build.
However, those research costs need to be recovered and the shareholders kept happy, right? "Send us your moneyz, peasants !"
I'm not sure you understand what price fixing means, typically it requires two parties to be complicit tho, which doesn't seem to be what you're implying or something Samsung could do by their lonesome.
It's new, it's a TotL product, and it has little competition, the price could actually be higher per GB and it'd probably still sell within the niches it's meant to. Just because it's an EVO doesn't mean it's strictly a mass consumer product.
I'm sure many pros in content creation could use 4TB SSD in a workstation, or several of them, it's price is barely the cost of a new lens/camera body/etc. If there were three other SSD manufacturers making equally good 4TB SSD and they were all this price then you could cry price fixing...
Or if Samsung was the only NAND supplier, but they're not.
"If they have the money, the should pay up." Great logic there buddy. Hope your paycheck is big enough for all your efforts.
Expensive pro equipment (whether obviously overpriced or not) is used by pros to MAKE money. In simple English, shit pays for itself. This, however, is STORAGE, FFS.
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nathanddrews - Friday, July 22, 2016 - link
Too much money for me, but still so awesome. C'mon you filthy richers, buy them up and bring those prices down!retrospooty - Friday, July 22, 2016 - link
Agreed it is awesome, but "filthy richers, buying them up" will not bring the price down. 3 things will bring it down. 1 - competition 2 - higher storage tiers coming out filling the top spot and 3 - lack of sales at the current price. 1,2, and 3 can contribute to each other in many ways, but collectively any combo can score price lowering points in the game.nathanddrews - Friday, July 22, 2016 - link
You forgot #4 - volume production. At this price point, richers will control 1, 2, and 4. #3 only happens if richers don't show up.retrospooty - Friday, July 22, 2016 - link
Good point. It will happen though, just a matter of time. Look how far SSD prices have droped in the past few years. I just picked up a Samsung 850 pro 256gb for $130 and an Adata sp550 480gb for only $108 on my latest system build. in a year or two we will probably see 1-2tb SSD's for those prices and 8-16tb for $1499.just4U - Saturday, July 23, 2016 - link
I don't think it has to do with being rich.. business may buy such things if they figure they need it.. Enthusiasts may as well.. It's been this way since forever.blackice85 - Friday, July 22, 2016 - link
Same here, I'd love to get some but it's too soon. I'll be buying 6 or 8 TB mechanical drives soonish to replace older hardware, so maybe next time SSDs will be close enough in cost per GB to make it a viable option.bill.rookard - Friday, July 22, 2016 - link
Agreed. Right now I can get 4TB mechanical drives for $150ish - or about 1/10th the price. When it hits 1/2 the price (ie: 4TB for $300ish) then I'll switch to all SSDs.bigboxes - Friday, July 22, 2016 - link
Agreed. Not at this time.CaedenV - Saturday, July 23, 2016 - link
Can't justify using it in my personal machines, but I am trying to convince my work to buy 2 2TB drives for raid 1 to house VMs that have databases on them. It would dramatically help a lot of things, and while the price is high, when considering how many people's productivity would rise I would think it a simple decisionjust4U - Saturday, July 23, 2016 - link
yep, it's to much money for the majority of us but... this is VERY good news. Now that the high capacity SSDs are truly here... they will eventually come down to a price level we can all afford. Might take awhile (1-2 years max I think..) but they will get there.xstylus - Saturday, July 23, 2016 - link
What ever happened to Mushkin's 4TB SSD drive that was touted around the start of this year for $500?DanNeely - Friday, July 22, 2016 - link
Is there any chance of HPE/etc letting a few of their crazy SSDs out for review? I'd be interested both in raw performance numbers from the standard SSD benches and in what Johan could do with a few to see how much they speed up various server applications.SkiBum1207 - Friday, July 22, 2016 - link
I second that request! We still maintain some bare-metal database servers, and having some enterprise level benchmarks would be excellent!lilmoe - Friday, July 22, 2016 - link
$1600.................... Imagine what you could get for $1600. This is consumer hardware for crying out loud.Sammy's been keeping lots of riches lately; best performing drives, great reliability, and the lowest cost BoM in all/most segments with higher than average prices (ie: highest margins).
I seriously HATE how they're playing a major role in fixing prices at those extremely high levels. Like seriously? Double the space is DOUBLE the cost? I don't buy this one bit, even if it's first gen 48 layer NAND. Early adoption has its limits, 3D NAND can be considered mature now, newer tech in fabrication should be used to lower costs IMMEDIATELY, not milk the consumer.
DanNeely - Friday, July 22, 2016 - link
Being new tech it probably is lower yield and has more unrecovered upfront R&D costs (that the mature 32 layer vnand has already long since recovered from early adopters). If anything is remarkable it should be that while clearly in low rate initial production (if it was yielding as good as the older production lines they'd be switching them over much faster and launching at mainstream sizes too) for a halo product that they're not charging a premium for it that would make it *MORE* expensive than RAID0ing a pair of 2 TB drives.Kristian Vättö - Friday, July 22, 2016 - link
Double the space is double the price because the cost to make one is double. SSD pricing doesn't scale like HDDs because high capacity SSDs simply contain more NAND chips.lilmoe - Friday, July 22, 2016 - link
Does double the capacity mean double the silicon? We're talking 48 layer here. Isn't the cost of the controller relatively the same? Or does that double as well?wavetrex - Saturday, July 23, 2016 - link
Definitely milking. It's not even double the amount of chips... actually the quantity of silicon is the same, they're just using higher columns of 3D nand. Same controller, same packaging, same transport/handling...It's probably costing them ... let's say, 25% more to build.
However, those research costs need to be recovered and the shareholders kept happy, right?
"Send us your moneyz, peasants !"
Impulses - Monday, July 25, 2016 - link
Not even... Probably... Let's say... Sounds like you've got a firm grasp on the logistics involved.lilmoe - Friday, July 22, 2016 - link
Also, this isn't double the cost, it's significantly MORE than double................................Impulses - Monday, July 25, 2016 - link
Not if you go by MSRP. All the drives seem to fall well under MSRP within a few months.lilmoe - Thursday, July 28, 2016 - link
The 850 EVO is NOT a new drive. New capacities don't warrant zero hour.Impulses - Monday, July 25, 2016 - link
I'm not sure you understand what price fixing means, typically it requires two parties to be complicit tho, which doesn't seem to be what you're implying or something Samsung could do by their lonesome.It's new, it's a TotL product, and it has little competition, the price could actually be higher per GB and it'd probably still sell within the niches it's meant to. Just because it's an EVO doesn't mean it's strictly a mass consumer product.
I'm sure many pros in content creation could use 4TB SSD in a workstation, or several of them, it's price is barely the cost of a new lens/camera body/etc. If there were three other SSD manufacturers making equally good 4TB SSD and they were all this price then you could cry price fixing...
Or if Samsung was the only NAND supplier, but they're not.
lilmoe - Thursday, July 28, 2016 - link
"which doesn't seem to be what you're implying or something Samsung could do by their lonesome".RCD spotted. (reading comprehension disorder). Reread.
"If they have the money, the should pay up." Great logic there buddy. Hope your paycheck is big enough for all your efforts.
Expensive pro equipment (whether obviously overpriced or not) is used by pros to MAKE money. In simple English, shit pays for itself. This, however, is STORAGE, FFS.
LordanSS - Friday, July 22, 2016 - link
I'll buy a bunch of these for a home NAS, say 6-8 drives......the day I win big in a lottery or something. Otherwise, I'll keep dreaming.
JKJK - Friday, July 22, 2016 - link
NB! MISCO price is without VAT.Kjella - Saturday, July 23, 2016 - link
Yeah also wondered about that, +25% if you want to buy it as a consumer... so more like $1648extide - Saturday, July 23, 2016 - link
I'm pretty sure these use the new 3-rd gen 48-layer 3D NAND from Samsung, not the 2-gen 32-layer stuff.Motion2082 - Saturday, September 3, 2016 - link
Samsung are greedy motherf#%^ckersDon't buy these overprices chips no matter the temptation