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  • fazalmajid - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link

    Meh. What I want is a HEDT CPU with only P-cores, and AVX-512 re-enabled as a result. Perhaps Sapphire Rapids will deliver that.
  • nandnandnand - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link

    Fishhawk Falls, Q4 launch maybe.

    https://www.notebookcheck.net/16-cores-32-threads-...
    https://wccftech.com/intel-hedt-sapphire-rapids-w7...
  • Silver5urfer - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link

    HEDT is dead.

    Intel won't release an X299 successor. Their new Sapphire Rapids based HEDT is W, Workstation class. Meaning Prosumer just like Threadripper Pro. So expect a super high premium asking price.

    Gaming and Mobile industry killed HEDT. Nowadays most of them spend more time on their junk Smartphone consuming all the stupid Social media drama and etc. So PC users are only relegated to those so called "Gaming" which is mostly - Fortnite, Pubg, COD Warzone, Apex Legends. All this garbage. Not SP games. And Windows 11 direction is also more geared towards mobile UI.

    All in all HEDT is essentially gone.
  • brucethemoose - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link

    I disagree, as I think the core count wars killed HEDT.

    No game I know of (other than one beta MMO) can fully saturate a top end consumer CPU these days. And most workloads will get done *reasonably* quickly on a 12900KS or 5950X.

    You need more? Well thats what the P/W series is for. There's a lot of fixed-cost overhead designing something like X299 or TR4, and I don't think the volume justifies it over just making some workstationy motherboards/CPUs on a heavily amortized server socket.
  • StevoLincolnite - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link

    My old 3930K from over 10 years ago is still playing the latest and greatest games just fine. Overclocks like a champ too.
    Running Ryzen 9 at the moment with 64GB of Ram.

    But Quad Channel+6 Core/12 threads is what gave it that longevity because it's a HEDT platform.

    Fast forward to today... They essentially just moved HEDT chips onto consumer platforms and dialed up the core counts... Which is why the price points of high-end Ryzen 9 can align itself to older HEDT chip price brackets of old.

    There just isn't a dedicated socket for it anymore... Or Quad channel memory.
  • michael2k - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    I don’t think it’s possible to make a CPU faster anymore until Intel gets to 4nm; it just takes too much power.

    So their only choice is wider and more cores. Apple is a node ahead and will probably hit 3nm next year when Intel hits 4nm.
  • StevoLincolnite - Sunday, July 31, 2022 - link

    Keep in mind that nodes are not directly comparable based upon pure marketing nomenclature.

    Intel 7nm for example is absolutely superior to TSMC or Samsung 7nm in actual feature sizes.
  • michael2k - Sunday, July 31, 2022 - link

    Yes you are correct but also irrelevant. Intel 7 may be superior to TSMC 7 but inferior to TSMC 5 or TSMC 5P
  • Zoolook - Monday, August 1, 2022 - link

    I guess you mean Intel 7, which is their renamed 10nm, and it's debatable, Intel 7 never reached their initial proposed logical density and in comparisons of chips they seem to have less than 10% lead in density and their volume production launched years after TSMC and it's clearly worse in power efficiency.
    TSMC is gearing up volume production on N3 which is a year ahead of Intels comparable (projected density) Intel 4 process.
  • michael2k - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    It’s funny how Apple still has a ‘jest’ CPU; 16 pcores and 4 ecores in the M1 Ultra.

    But AMD still sells a 16 core part too:
    https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m1-ult...

    https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-9-59...

    The real question is if core counts will go up with the M2 Ultra; adding 2 p cores to the M2 Max (10/2) would give the M2 Ultra 20/4

    The problem Intel and AMD have is that their power draw is so high it gets hard to add more cores and still cool the part.
  • DazFG - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link

    performance per watt for these CPUs is abismall!
  • bug77 - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link

    Which is weird, because high-end CPUs (and GPUs, for that matter) are usually hallmarks of efficiency. Right?

    But yeah, Alder Lake can take so much punishment, your PSU might cave in before the CPU does...
  • techjunkie123 - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link

    Sadly AMD is also headed in this direction with their new CPUs (Zen 4)...... 5.5 GHz and 70% higher TDP for what, 40% or so better MT performance?

    Apples high end CPU and GPU performance scales quite well with power. They just throw a lot more silicon at the problem, but it is effective.
  • tamalero - Sunday, July 31, 2022 - link

    Eyup, this is another Netburst..
  • bennyg - Monday, August 8, 2022 - link

    When you get up to 5ghz, yeah, but OC has always been that way, turbo boost is just factory auto OC
    Down at 80W in mobile the perf per watt looks far better for the 6p8e parts
    It's all Ohm's fault for that law of his
  • blanarahul - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link

    Huh. Makes you wonder how a stock 12900KS would perform under Dry Ice since I doubt any phase change cooler can keep up with the 400 watt heat output.
  • ddhelmet - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link

    Factoria updates per seconds are too low.
  • healbunny - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link

    stock voltage is way too high, please try undervolt. my 12900ks with undervolt able to get P core all core 5.3Ghz, Ecore 4.2Ghz (vcore 1.2v). 2 core boost is 5.6Ghz at 1.3v vcore. All core full load in cinebench r23 consume 240w, cpu package temperature around 80C. Single core consume around 48W, 53C. (using Msi K360 aio). Score for R23, multi 30006 pts, single 2143pts.
  • Oxford Guy - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    You are clearly unfamiliar with their justification for only using JEDEC RAM settings. Undervolting is more complex than picking a vetted XMP profile.
  • Carls Car - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    healbunny didn't mention XPM at all.
  • Oxford Guy - Sunday, July 31, 2022 - link

    I really have to spell the logic out?
  • Carls Car - Sunday, July 31, 2022 - link

    No thanks.
  • Carls Car - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    Stock is indeed too high. With minimal effort tweaks, I've set my 12900KS to 1.32v @ LLC4 (ASUS). Dropped temps and power consumption massively, while still being able to maintain the stock 5.2/5.5 frequencies.
  • Carls Car - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    Let me follow up by saying, a 360mm AIO is still BARELY enough to tame the 12900KS. Some of this can be attributed to the ILM. I'm considering getting the TG one and giving it a go.
  • Silver5urfer - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link

    With the Raptor Lake leaks. Basically Intel relegated themselves to an 8C/6C gaming oriented processor or 8C max ST performance CPU system. They will keep on adding those E cores to fight AMD's competition in MT and in ST side add cache and brute force clocks.

    Rumors are 13600K itself is consuming a ton of power north of 200W because they added more E cores and increased clocks. I mean 300W is pretty doable for DH15 but since Rocket Lake Intel's heat density has increased a ton. Making the CPU cooling a challenge if we OC it or tune it.

    10900K was hot but 11900K was super hot for it's performance and regressed in Clocks and IMC. 12900K is like Rocket Lake in Heat density, and not like 10900K but the performance it gave was super high unlike 11900K.

    12900K basically needs an AIO minimum. Now 13900K with even more 5.7GHz boosting it will demand even more cooling. Shame how Intel doesn't have a successor to Core series yet. And they keep adding these E cores, Increase clocks, Cache to combat.

    Finally I think this CPU is worthless. $750 cost for what ? A beta product - new DDR5 IMC, shoddy DDR4 IMC, yeah not all 12900Ks can handle 4000MHz Gear 1. Very high heat if you OC, too much premium only to be EOLed by 13900K basically a year of lifespan. Finally the LGA1700's physical flaws in design causing the PCB and CPU to bend. Yea the advantages of new PCIe 5.0 and DMI speeds with new Chipset bandwidth and no BS stable BIOS unlike AMD's shoddy firmware. I will wait until DDR5 matures by 5 years from now and then purchase what's best at that time.
  • Alistair - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link

    I wonder if Anandtech had that bent CPU problem here with their tests. Their custom loop was still not enough.
  • Gavin Bonshor - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link

    Hi Alistair, it wasn't a custom loop, that's what is needed to get optimal performance. We used an ASUS Ryujin II 360 mm AIO ($310) and I used an MSI 360 mm AIO. The ASUS was actually better.

    When the firmware is pushing 1.4 V through the VCore on these chips, you're going to hit thermal throttling
  • erotomania - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link

    Thanks GB!
  • Alistair - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    Oh sorry, quite right!
  • Alistair - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    I got confused because of this sentence:

    "One potential workaround to this would be to use more aggressive cooling methods such as a custom water loop. Still, even with our highly premium $310 cooler, we consistently hit 100°C on the heavier workloads,"

    I assumed that a highly premium $310 cooler was a custom loop ha... could change it to "even with out highly premium (not custom loop) $310 cooler
  • Carls Car - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    It's not the CPU that's bent. It's the ILM that is the issue.
  • charlesg - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link

    Meh. I like my 1.5 year old 5950X thank you.
  • Alistair - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link

    The 12900KS has already been discontinued at our store, as nobody bought one. Terrible chip.

    Don't forget that Ryzen 7000 series is releasing in a few weeks only, and will beat it soundly, with half the power consumption.

    But even if you were buying today I'd get the 5800X3D which is now on sale. $390 at our store. Much more popular.
  • Alistair - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    Emulation with the 12900KS is a dream though... that's the one high spot for me, as Ryzen is still not a great emulation chip

    I hope Ryzen 7000 fixes this in the Dolphin benchmark.
  • Oxford Guy - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    Is emulation worth the heat, power use, and cost?
  • Alistair - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    Emulation is single core heavy, there isn't a heat or power use issue.
  • Tunnah - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    I have a 3700X that runs switch emu at 60fps, so I don't see why more single core performance is any more necessary. You're not unlocking something previously undoable, you're just paying a shedload of money for a few more FPS.
  • Silver5urfer - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    RPCS3, Xenia, PCSX2

    Ryzen cannot run games vs 10th+ gen processors in performance. You do not need to dump a ton of cash. A 10700K can perform much better in either of these and that is available for peanuts now. Z590 is also super cheap.
  • Tom Sunday - Wednesday, August 3, 2022 - link

    I heard that if anyone upgrades to a regular 13900K that this chip will be faster then the current 12th Gen KS model?
  • PeachNCream - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link

    Burn the planet! 241W TDP not high enough for my video gaming habit to destroy our world in the name of keeping me amused and allow me to brag to my superficial circle of so-called friends on Discord and disinterested coworkers about how many more FPSes I get in Fortnite!
  • Alistair - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link

    peak power was 276 watts...
  • Carls Car - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    Peak power can get way higher.
  • dicobalt - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    I'm sure kilowatt PCs will cause no electrical problems at all. At this rate people will need to hire an electrician to make sure it's safe. It's not like DIY repairs in hurricane and flood zones ever cause fires or deaths.
  • Tunnah - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    It's just so violently 'Murican. Pure horsepower and engine size, drinks tons of fuel and is inefficient as hell. The alternatives do way better with less power and cost you less to run. It's just so..brash.

    But people will buy it because they wanna wave their willys.
  • Carls Car - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    Because enthusiasts don't exist.
  • Alistair - Sunday, July 31, 2022 - link

    All the top CPU designs are American ;p
  • Grapple - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    Would have loved to see one 12th Gen Core i9 at each power level in the charts — i9-12900T, i9-12900, i9-12900K, and the i9-12900KS — to see how the power/performance looks across the gamut.
  • stephenbrooks - Saturday, July 30, 2022 - link

    Yes - the 12900T looked the 2nd-most-interesting chip to me in this lineup, I'm curious what this does at lower power.

    I think the 12900F looks best because: it's the cheapest, doesn't have a iGPU you won't use, uses less power but not a particularly bad regression on clocks.
  • Alistair - Sunday, July 31, 2022 - link

    but the 5800x3d is far ahead of the 12900f
  • hansip87 - Sunday, July 31, 2022 - link

    Those heat output could be linked to the LGA 1700 locking issue. i bet those who bought such a chip won't mind using the aftermarket bracket.
  • Dante Verizon - Sunday, July 31, 2022 - link

    Honestly, iGPU performance seems abnormal.. What's going on
  • tygrus - Sunday, July 31, 2022 - link

    What's the avg power or task energy while doing different workloads? eg. Browser/office apps, video playback, video encoding/Transcoding, MT technical.
  • MDD1963 - Monday, August 1, 2022 - link

    AT is really on top of reviewing the fastest CPUs within less than 4-5 months of their releases...!!! :/
  • MDD1963 - Monday, August 1, 2022 - link

    Doing CPU comparisons with only a 2080Ti is bogus.....(good on ya'll for not using a GTX1060, however!)
  • Alistair - Monday, August 1, 2022 - link

    it's fine, just use 720p instead of 1080p, you'll get higher FPS with a 2080 Ti at 720p than a 3090 Ti at 1080p
  • gallon6341 - Saturday, September 17, 2022 - link

    In this gen I am very impressed with the i5 12400f.

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